English E-Mail to the Diskussion "Teak-Deck"

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TomM
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English E-Mail to the Diskussion "Teak-Deck"

Beitrag von TomM » Donnerstag 6. Februar 2003, 16:07

I apply here the diskussion out from Yahoo
Hi, again

Yes, it's the Conqubine. There's no decksalon.

You're free to post this e-mail to vindoe-forum.de!

Regards,
Trond V.
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: Thomas Margraf [mailto:thomas.margraf@metasco.de]
Sendt: 6. februar 2003 15:43
Til: Trond Vassgård
Emne: AW: [Vindonetdiscussion] Re: Teak Deck and hinged-mast adjustment Vindö 32


Hey Trond,

thanks for your promp answer, I am glad that it was helplfull for you. If you allow, I would like to post this E-Mail in our vindoe-forum.de.

The Vindö 30 you own must be the Type with the Decksalon, is this true? Is it maybe the Concubine? I full agree with you, owning a Vindö means alltime that you are more or less married with your Boat. With all the good and all the bad times ;-) We own a 32 model which was build in 1984 (they told us the last one) I love this boat, but sometimes, when you have to repair things it ist unbelievable. And you right, it ist a good boat, it us across the northsea though storms without any problems.

So trond, do you allow that I post this E-Mail? It would be the first english one!

Regards to Norway

Tom
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Trond Vassgård [mailto:trond.vassgaard@maritech.no]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 6. Februar 2003 12:48
An: 'Thomas Margraf'
Betreff: SV: [Vindonetdiscussion] Re: Teak Deck and hinged-mast adjustment Vindö 32


Thanks, Thomas

I'm happy with your informative reply.

I have a Vindö 30, 1971 model. As I said, last year I replaced the teak-deck. The teak itself was ok but the plywood underneath was rotten due to leaks. That again was due to some odd repairs done by a previous owner. This year I'm uprading the sails (new main sail and furlex roller system ahead). The boat has been in the family since 1983. We're very fond of it. It's a good boat.

Thanks again.

Regards,
Trond V.
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: Thomas Margraf [mailto:thomas.margraf@metasco.de]
Sendt: 6. februar 2003 12:08
Til: Trond Vassgård
Emne: Re: [Vindonetdiscussion] Re: Teak Deck and hinged-mast adjustment Vindö 32


Hey Trond,
The Sika 290DC is a silicone based sealant. For Teak, Mahagoni, Iroko, Kork and GRP theay recommend Sika-Primer 290DC. But nevertheless it won't work at old silicone sealed decks. It only work on new or PUR based sealed decks.

The reason ist simple, the monomeric silicone as well as the polymerised silikone contend a several amount of silicone oil, this oil sucks into the wood (Teak) and stays there. All sealants need chemical groups for the adhesion reaction. They will find O-H groups now at the silicone oil but the oil itselve has no adheasion to the wood (only a physical like a chewing gum). Therefore it lasts for maybe 2 or up to 5 years and the risk is that you will get small cracks (open flanks) wich allow that water come through.

I don't know the current Situation with Hallberg Rassy and Nayade, but they used Silikone as well. You can make a test by your own. cut a piece of the sealant and inflame it with a lighter - the silikone burns with white smoke and don't smell so much, the PUR has black smoke and smells strong. The semmling is the most important sign. As well if you blow it out and rubb it, if your finger become black like sud you can be more shure it is PUR with silikone it is a different in colour. Check it by yourself, you see the diffence very easy.

The reason why they used silicone is simple, silicone is/was cheaper than PUR and, most important, silicone is resistant agianst UV weathering. PUR had up to 90th problems with the weathering, it became sticky.

If you replaced the Deck complete with new Teak it will work and you can be happy because it is much simpler to work with PUR nowaday. you can grind it and you will not get the higher lines like with silicone. But you must be carefull with the gap between the deck and the roof / hausing. Because it was sealed in the past with silicone you should check it carefully for adhesion. Otherwise you could get problems with water.

Trond, if you join the http://vindoe-forum.de/forum/index.php I can offer/open you some links in english and we can have a open discussion (for all) in this matter.

Best regards to norway, I have been very often there becaus Scanglas, Böckmann and most of the others up to 10 km northern form the polar circle has been my clients in the past. Now I work self employed so I come only once a year to Finland and not to Norway.

Thomas

----- Original Message -----
From: Trond Vassgård
To: 'channel_sailor'
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: SV: [Vindonetdiscussion] Re: Teak Deck and hinged-mast adjustment Vindö 32


Hi, Tom

I just want to ask you one question. Are you saying that using Sikaflex for teak-deck caulking will not work?
If so, what's the problem by applying this sealant? I replaced my old teak-deck last year and was adviced by experts
(amongst them were Sika-agents in Norway) to use Sikaflex 290 DC. So I did. I'd very much like to hear your opinion on this.

Best regards,
Trond V.

-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: channel_sailor [mailto:thomas.margraf@metasco.de]
Sendt: 6. februar 2003 03:33
Til: Vindonetdiscussion@yahoogroups.co.uk
Emne: [Vindonetdiscussion] Re: Teak Deck and hinged-mast adjustment Vindö 32


Maybe there is more than one missunderstanding.
I am TomM and what the missunderstanding is is very simple.
I never wrote that there is solid GRP under the Deck, I described
only that vindoe never used any sandwich GRP Material. The Teakdeck
is massiv, under the teakdeck you will find sandwich wood (mahagoni
material) and under the sandwich wood you will find a thin layer of
GRP for water protection - thats it. I drilled a hole in my Deck and
found this. Have you done it?

The hull, and that is what I said, ist massiv laminated GRP, the Hull
never I said Deck.

And again, forget Sika PUR applying on the original silikone sealant
it doesn't work. I spoke to some technician from Sika because I know
that it is much easier to apply and to grind. His answer was - forget
it even not with a primer, it never works. I knew this guy because I
sold insulating glass sealants and Sika was a small competitor in
this field. And I trust him because why should he not take a business
when he could. And I worked in development for sealants, so I know
what I say. But I posted it in the Yacht forum as well: It is not my
boat, do what you want. but when this is your decicion don't ask if
you know from the beginning that you would not agree with the answer.

I would be interested to get the manual information about the Deck,
how can I get a copy? Because I never finish learning.

I think it is not fair and it sounds a bit rude when you start a
discussion on the yacht forum and follow it here. But ok, it's your
decission.

I kindly invite you to the new index.php.
We can follow the diskussion there and of course you can complete my
knowledge.

Kind regards

channel_sailor (alias TomM)

--- In Vindonetdiscussion@y..., "vindode" <h.kreuz@o...> wrote:
> Hi Eckhard, hi Joerg,
>
> ive never seen a GRP Vindoe without an Sandwich-deck.
> The older with balsa and the newer with foam (may be Divinylcell)
> Greetings from Flensburg
> Heinrich
>
> --- In Vindonetdiscussion@y..., "Eckhard Fetzer, BbA"
> <eckhard.fetzer@b...> wrote:
> > Hi Jörg,
> >
> > we own a Vindö 40 from 1977.
> > 1. Are you sure, that you have a sandwich-deck? There is a threat
> in the
> > german Yacht-Forum
> > (http://www.dkverlag.de/yacht/apboard/thread.php3?
> idx=8303&start=1&BoardID=5
> > ,
> > TomM 31.12.2002, 05:20 Uhr), which says, that all Vindös have
solid
> GRP
> > under the teak. What's right?
> > 2. Last spring there was a 40 with a dead man-adjustment/hinged
> > mast-adjustment for sale near Hamburg
> >
>
(http://www.sportbootboerse.de/Kunden/Ku ... 034/sy0034
> .htm).
> > Perhaps Mr. Sonnemäker, the vendor, can tell you about his
> experience.
> >
> > Regards from Eckhard
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Jörg Remde [mailto:joerg_remde@w...]
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Januar 2003 10:59
> > An: Vindonetdiscussion@y...
> > Betreff: [Vindonetdiscussion] Teak Deck and hinged-mast
adjustment
> Vindö
> > 32
> >
> >
> > Hello Vindönet-Members,
> >
> > we own a Vindö 32 from 1981. Now we think about to remove the
teak
> to repair
> > the sandwich deck, where we have some delamination and then to
lay
> it back.
> > My question is, did they use silikon (and when silikon, which
> kind?) to
> > caulk the teak deck or is it possible to use materials like
> sikaflex and had
> > anyone of you the same problems?
> > The other think is when we already remove the teak, we like to
> install a
> > hinged-mast adjustment (I don't know, if it's the right word, in
> German:
> > Mastlegevorichtung), which is quite useful on the lakes between
> Potsdam and
> > Berlin. Does anyone of you have any experience with this?
> >
> > Thanks for some information,
> > Regards Jörg

Everyone should feel free to join the diskussion, either in english or in german.

It seems that we can find a lot of different constructions in Vindö's.
so long -> Tom

Wissen ist Macht - Macht nichts
(Heinz Erhardt)

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